Where has the passion gone? is the title of the second episode from season three of Way of the Master.
Ray “the book of Samuel has a very relevant portion of scripture for today's church. We are told that when the enemy of Israel, led by a man named Nahash, was about to attack them that he agreed to a peace treaty. But it had one condition. Nahash said, 'On this condition I will make a covenant with you, that I may thrust out all your right eyes, and lay it for a reproach upon all Israel.' He wanted to gouge out their right eyes! That sounds strange, but Nahash had method in his madness. Warriors back then fought with their left sides covered with a shield, making their right eye their fighting eye. Nahash was seeking to destroy their ability to fight.”
This Nahash character apparently failed, as 1 Samuel 11 says the Israelites slaughtered and massacred the Amonites.
Kirk, “the Bible dictionary tells us that the name Nahash means serpent. Telling us that this is more than likely a bible-type of that serpent of the devil for seeking to make a covenant with the church. Now of course, no one would ever let someone gouge out their right eye. I mean, I'd rather lose my right arm than my eye. That's a terrible thought. In the same way, the thought of the church surrendering the right eye of its fighting ability should be abhorrent to us. Remember, we are soldiers of christ, fighting a battle that the bible calls 'the good fight of faith' and the purpose of the battle is to rescue captives from the hands of the enemy. Our enemy, the devil, wants us to put down our weapons and become involved in anything but reaching out to the lost. And if you and I do that, and become involved in activities (even legitimate ones) at the cost of evangelism, we are surrendering to the devil.”
This “good fight for faith” is not a good fight in any possible meanings of the phrase. Faith, in the religious context, is very harmful. It is pretending to know what you don't know, the absolute conviction that is not based on logic or evidence, and is the precursor to self-delusion. Faith is not reasonable. Our beliefs should be tentative and subject to obligated change if the evidence demands it. We should have some way to correct the flaws in our current perception and thus improve our understanding – THAT would be reasonable. Because if we love truth at all, then what should matter most is that we not allow ourselves to be deceived. But faith is the very opposite, it requires that we literally “make belief” that we ignore what we really do see and pretend something is there when it apparently isn't. It means that we fool ourselves.
Faith is what drives people to believe the unbelievable, turning rational people irrational. Many people of faith deny science and observable reality simply because their faith demands it. Faith demands that their beliefs must not change. This is not just a willful ignorance, this is dimension, a deliberately induced delusion. Fantasy is adopted as reality and truth is dismissed as irrelevant. It is fundamentally fallacious and inherently dishonest, and the worst of it has yet to come. Faith takes away reason and accountability. It means to never have to accept responsibility for your own mistakes and never having to admit when you are wrong. Instead, you label your lies as truth with a capital T. Faith is the most dishonest and unreasonable position that is possible to have. It is the most counter-productive too, faith has only ever served to retard or reverse progress in whatever socially, political, medical, educational, economical or environmental application that has ever touched.
The only enemy of faith is not a “devil” but reason itself. This is why Martin Luther said “Reason should be destroyed in all Christians” and “Whoever wants to be a Christian should tear the eyes out of his Reason.”
Faith is not just dishonest, it is dangerous. It is sad how many parents who have neglected their children in honor of their religion, often by allowing children to die of easily treatable diseases. It is also disturbing how many people who proudly promise to murder their own families if they mistake the voices in their head for the voice of god. It is alarming to see how many people have already done so. That is the worst part of faith – not being able to separate your conviction of revelation from the illusions of delusion. Religion provides a perfect camouflage for dimension.
In summary, what Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron are fighting for is not a “good fight” at all. They are ferociously pushing a dishonest and dangerous ideology, a retardation of intelligence, and blind unquestionable gullibility.
Ray, “when Israel heard the conditions of the covenant, we are told that all the people lifted up their voices and wept. Desperation drove them to their knees. Isn't it true? We become complacent in our prayers when things are going well, but trials drive us to our knees. I call it 'Lions Den Praying' – if you look up and see a bunch of large lions licking their lips and looking at you for lunch, you don't pray 'god bless aunt Berthy', no you go 'GOD HELP ME!' There's a fervent desperation in your prayer. The bible says 'the effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much.' The word fervent comes from the Greek word zeo, meaning 'hot' – which accurately describes the type of prayer that you and I pray in a lions den. According to Vines Expository Dictionary, the word is similar to the word of which we derive the word 'agonize.' Desperation produces hot, agonizing prayer that accomplishes much.”
Wake up Call
Kirk, “as Christians, we must get desperate in our prayers for god to reach the lost. Their predicament is worse than being in a lions den. The bible says that death can seize them at any moment and drag them to an everlasting hell. If we are serious about reaching them, we must stop using unbiblical methods to do it, because we are filling our churches with lost converts.”
“Their predicament is worse than being in a lions den”
Their predicament is worse than being banished to the corn fields in the Twilight Zone.
Both of these are empty threats.
If Kirk wants to use biblical methods, why doesn't he start stoning false converts or mailing unbelivers body parts?
Ray, “more than once when I arrived in a city to preach, the pastors said 'we believe in plenty of decisions this weekend.' My standard reply is, 'how many would you like? Ten, twenty, thirty? If you just want decisions – and by that I mean, people giving their hearts to jesus but without genuine repentance – I can get them. But if you want to see people certainly saved, that's different. Salvation is of the lord. But if we are happy to fill up our church with decisions, they are following a ten-tried-and-true-points. Here is what to do to fill the church with false converts.”
This ought to be good.
Kirk, “Number one: don't mention anything about future punishment. Dont tell the sinner to flee from the wrath to come.”
Preacher, “one recent Valentines Day, I got a chocolate heart that said 'Be mine.' And that is what jesus is offering you here today. A box of chocolates that says 'Be mine.'”
Nah, actually be a fire and brimestone preacher. Scare your listeners, make them feel useless and hopeless.
Ray, “Number two: instead preach the love of god with the promise of peace, joy, love and fulfillment.”
Preacher, “If you are not giving at least 15% back in a war investment portfolio, then just try jesus. Just try jesus. He'll give you peace, he'll give you joy, he'll give you satisfaction, he will change your life.”
Right, dont preach the things that make people feel good. No, you want them horrified and feel unworhty.
Kirk, “Number three: appeal to the emotions rather than the will and the conscience.”
*loud orchestra music* Preacher, “WHOA, come on now! Let's get excited with jesus tonight.”
What Kirk Cameron means by not appealing to the “conscience” is not making them feel guilty of breaking the Old Testament laws.
Ray, “Number Four: gloss over the serious nature of sin by emphasizing 'all have sinned.' Spread it around so they don't feel any personal guilt.”
Preacher, “Look, we've all been naughty boys and girls. Even I have been naughty here and there, just like you. We don't have to feel bad about it. Jesus loves us. It's okay. Feel good about yourself, that's what jesus wants. He loves you, because he found something good in you to love. Feel good about yourself.”
Because personal guilt is the goal. Use a bunch of fictional laws to make people feel like criminals.
Kirk, “Number five: neglect using the law of god to bring conviction.”
Preacher, “I have heard people talk about the Ten Commandments when preaching the gospel. WHAT!? Are you kidding me. Ugh, that is nuts people. The law was in the Old Testament, and we are of the New Testament. Now we need to use the book of Revelation of the gospel, because I'm preaching the gospel for today, not back in the day.”
This is quite an interesting things with Christians. When pointed out the atrocities or immoral acts and immoral divine commandments, such as the law that commands any woman who is not a virgin on her wedding day must be stoned to death, Christians are quick to shout “but that is of the Old Testament, those don't apply anymore.”
This is called cherry picking. Say the Old Testament laws don't apply anymore... except for a few laws that assist my agenda of making you feel guilty.
Ray, “Number six: for the invitation, use the old 'every eye is closed and nobody is watching you, just slip your hand up' method.”
Preacher, “Now I want everybody to close their eyes. I want everybody to bow their heads and close their eyes. And if the spirit has moved in your heart tonight to make a decision for christ, I want you to go ahead and raise that hand. There's no peeking there, come on now, I see that! No peeking, don't be embarrassed now. I see that hand sir!”
Kirk, “Number seven: have counselors gently pull hand-raisers to the altar.”
Preacher whispers to a counselor and asking him to bring a man up to the altar.
Ray, “Number eight: sing psalm 119 through three times as your final appeal.”
Preacher wants the audience to sing again “because I don't think your getting it.”
Kirk, “Number nine: use light dimmers.”
Preacher asks one of the counselor to dim the lights.
Ray, “And Number ten: build your church with the floor slopping towards the front.”
Why does this matter? Any explanation?
This one just seemed like a filler.
You want a REAL piece of advise, STOP RAPING CHILDREN.
Kirk, “If you follow those instructions, you wont have much time to spend in prayer, because these ten points don't work. You wont even need god's help. What's more, the time you save in prayer can be devoted to all the counseling you'll have to do. As you try to prop up, all of your “decisions” who will more than likely prove to be false converts. Statistics show that when unbiblical methods are used to make decisions, they almost all fall away from the faith and become what are often called bitter backsliders. But those who do stay in the church will need a very supped-up church with a cool pastor, a kicking band and lots of activities, or they will probably slip back into the world.”
Ray, “in contrast, if we want to build a true church, we desperately need god's help. And if we want that, we need to drop every man-made method and go back to the biblical model for presentation of the gospel.”
Ray Comfort often says he is not a friend of religion and often “hates” religion...and yet here he is discussing how to build a church full of believers.
One 2 One
Ray is filming in a christian book store. First shows a copy of Kirk Cameron's book “still growing.”
Ray talks to this one guy.
Kirk, “a great preacher of the past century said these regretful words as he laid on his death bed.”
“I have taken a long look into eternity. Oh, if I could come back and preach again, how different I would preach from what I preached before.”
How about a name or a source?
Fine, we'll do it for you. It was Charles Spurgeon. Go figure, Ray and Kirk love quoting this guy.
Kirk, “look what's happening here. Here is a great preacher who is lying on his death bed, thinking about what he had said to sinners and thinking of the enormity of eternity. Listen again to his sobering words. He said 'I have taken a long look into eternity. Oh, if I could come back and preach again, how different I would preach from what I preached before.' Each of us needs to do that, we need to look into eternity and then ask ourselves 'what are we offering this generation?' Are we saying, 'Hey things get better with christ' OR are we saying 'jesus will save you from the wrath of a holy god'? Paris Reidhead had this to say about John Westy's preaching...”
“Wesley was a preacher of righteousness. He would exalt the holiness of god, the law of god, the justice of god, the wisdom of god, his requirements, and the justice of his wrath. Then he would turn to the sinners and tell them of the enormity of their crimes, their open rebellion, their treason and their anarchy. The power of god will descend so mightly that it is reliably reported, on one occasion, when the people dispersed, there were eighteen hundred people lying on the ground, completely unconscious because they had a revelation of the holiness of god, and in the light of that, they had seen the enormity of their own sin” – Paris Reidhead
Scene with Joni Eareckson Tada, Founder and CEO of Joni and Friends. She says, “The word of god always has such marvelous answers for our predicaments. We feel fearful or timid or shy about sharing our faith. Take heart from a verse like Acts 4:31 it says that 'those who were filled with the holy spirit spoke the word of god with boldness.' And then flip it a few pages down to Acts 14:3 it again says those who lie upon the lord spoke with great 'boldness' with great 'courage.' We are always going to be timid and shy and fearful when we try to give the gospel in our own effort and energy, but when we are plucked into the holy spirit and his passion for souls begins coursing through our veins, wild horses will not be able to stop you from sharing. So the key is to get closer to jesus, to fall in love with him, to get intimate with him, and when you do so, you'll have his heart for the lost. Not your heart, your heart can tend to get shy, fearful, cold, and timid. But never the heart of god.”
Really? You had to use Acts 4 to make the point of Christians speaking out in boldness? Using the same chapter where Christians engaged in forced collectivism – you know, communism, in the sense of a system of collectivized property. That's right, the Bible promotes communism. Not only that, but in the very next chapter (Acts 5:1-11), the Christian communist system results in the killing of a married couple that reneged on their promise to surrender their property.
Thus, the principle of killing those who did not conform to collectivization of property is already a biblical one. The defense that it was simply lying about turning over property that was the motive for the deaths of Ananias and Sapphira overlooks the brute fact that the value of life was put below handing over all their property. For instead of just being expelled, they were killed on the spot by god.
So Joni Tada's little segment here can be summed up as such: practice speaking out, and when you do it for god, you will improve – probably because god will smite you.
Kirk, “we know it is not easy to reach out to strangers, but if we care for the lost – if we REALLY care about them – we have to do something. Listen to this famous old time evangelist, Billy Sunday, plea with his generation to reach out to the unsaved. He called personal evangelism 'personal work.'”
Kirk and Ray's (as well as all evangelists) care for others to save them from a place that does not exist from something that does exist is only driven by delusion. They only want others to think and believe like them to save them from the boogy man.
“Personal work is a very difficult form of work, more difficult than preaching, singing, attending conventions, giving your goods to feed the poor. The devil will let you have an easy time until god asks you to do personal work. It will be right while you are singing in the choir, but as soon as you get out and work for god, the devil will be on your back and you will see all the flimsy excuses you can offer for not working for the lord. If you want to play right into the hands of the devil begin to offer your excuses.”
Ray shows clips of him interviewing a bunch of christians who do not evangelize all the time. Ray asks them where do people go when they die without christ. They all answer hell. Ray then asks they use the words “judgment day” or “hell” in their evangelism, they say no.
Ray, “when George Whitfield preached, tears streamed down his face while he pleaded with the lost. He said...”
“you blame me for weeping; but how can I help it when you will not weep for yourselves, although your own immortal souls are on the verge of destruction, and ought I know, you are hearing your last sermon, and may never have an opportunity to have christ offered to you.”
A delusional man weeping does not make his delusions anymore credible. What if this guy was weeping that his present crowd was not listening to his warnings of a coming invasion of giant hovering intelligent seahorses? Or what if he believed that people's auras will forever lose their color if they don't believe him?
Ray, “Whitfield gazed into the fiery fires of hell – not into a lost eternity, not from an eternal separation from god, or a christ-less eternity. These are fear of man cliches that have crept into the modern church. The scriptures speak of a lake of fire, it speaks of wailing and gnashing of teeth, it says where the worm dies not fire is not quenched.”
“Whitfield gazed into the fiery fires of hell” – wait what? Reread that quote from Whitfield again. Where does it say anything about fire? Or teeth? Or brimestone? It doesn't. Whitfield only says people's souls are “on the verge of destruction” which could mean anything.
The word Hell appears at least 54 times in the King James Version of the bible, at least 31 times in the Old Testament from the Hebrew word Sheol or and at least 23 times in the New Testament from the Greek words Hades, Gehenna or as it is in 2nd Peter Chapter 2 verse 4 the word tartaroō (Tartaros/Tartarus). Tartaroō appears only once. This is based on the Greek land of the damned and tormented, the Tartarus, beneath the realm of Hades. A perfect example of the type of torment that would be expected in tartaroō would be that of Tantalus who is chained to a rock. Any time he reaches for grapes or water the grape vine or river recedes. He is left to hunger and thrust forever. The punishment of Tantalus is where the word tantalize comes from. In Roman Mythology tartaroō is surrounded by the river Phlegethon, a river of flame. No one escapes tartaroō with its columns of solid walls as hard as diamond with the gates guarded by the great multi-headed serpent Hydra.
Hell is simply a Hellenistic reconstruction of Greek and Jewish beliefs regarding the afterlife.
So (sarcastically) what Whitfield looked into (if he did at all) was likely the fiery realm invented by the pagans.
Kirk, “the world talks about hell more than the church talks about it. It uses phrases like
“all hell broke loose”
“a bat out of hell”
“there's going to be hell to pay”
“just for the hell of it”
someone being “as mad as hell”
When things are hopeless they say “he doesn't have a hope in hell”
“the road to hell”
“come hell or high water”
“until hell freezes over”
As they casually speak of how sure something is with “as sure as hell”
And when they are angry with each other, they tell each other to “go to hell”
But so many inside the church call hell anything but hell. And by using fear of man cliches like a “christ-less eternity”, “eternal separation from god”, and a “lost eternity” we have created a Protestant purgatory. And we have fed the sinner the lie that there is an alternative to hell. And at the same time, we have diffused our evangelism of its urgency and robbed our preaching of it passion.”
Kirk is worried that Christians have invented a Protestant purgatory? That is comical!!! Considering that hell itself is just as fake as this “man-made Protestant purgatory.”
Kirk talks about this “christ-less eternity” like it is gentle euphemism for hell. Gentle or misleading, it does not matter how terrifying it sounds. The issue is that there is no evidence for a hell or “lake of fire” to begin with. Thus this evangelical “urgency” is just a delusion, like a great panic of being abducted and tortured by invisible bloodthirsty pixies.
Hell, in its historical context, is a reversion of the Greek Hades. Antiochus IV forcefully pushed Hellenization ideas upon the Jews which ended in the Maccabean Revolt in 166 BCE. This is during this period when apocalyptic writings begin to appear such as the apocalyptic sections of the book of Daniel. The concept of hell seems to be an evolution of a basic concept of an underworld from early Hebrew and Greek Mythology, later to be influenced by rabbinic sources then finally Greek Philosophy which cumulates in the apocalyptic writings found in the book of Daniel and later in the New Testament writings. Many New Testament writings including but certainly not exclusive to The Book of Revelation contain apocalyptic elements such as the Gospels and Paul’s Epistles. Regardless the concept of hell, Sheol or Hades has been elusive with a flat earth three tier model of an underworld of the dead, the material world we live in and celestial kingdom or a remote Mountain where the House of some God or a pantheon of Gods reside above. This idea of a three tier model was already outdated not long after the concept of Sheol and Hades, outdated by Pythagoras who deduced the earth was a sphere. This is around the time of the Babylonian Exile, later the Earths circumference would be calculated to a high level of precision for the time by Eratosthenes 250 years prior to the first Christians. Eratosthenes used no more than simple math. This there tier concept should not have been able to survive this.
So, we have a land of nightmarish torture, originally based on a flat-earth model, that is a revision of an old pagan realm of the damned. We have a pagan-made-up realm that nobody believes in anymore; a discredited model of the world; and we are expected to accept it now because later on man repackaged it? This is perhaps why man has made these “cliches”...because these are phrases that express the unbelievable. And what better way to express the unbelievable than to use an unbelievable thing or setting?
Ray, “we live in an insane world. God offers them everlasting life through the gospel, and they argue about it. They resist heaven as if it were hell itself. But if we love them, we must passionately plea with them despite their resistance, always remembering that it is our job to simply plant the seed of the word of god in the soil of the human heart. He will make it grow in his own time. To effectively plant that seed, we must take courage and do what jesus did: thoroughly take them through the Ten Commandments so they will see the need of god's forgiveness.”
We do live in an insane world, where billions of grown adults believe in imaginary supernatural beings.
People argue over everlasting life? Why would they argue over something like that? Maybe because...it simply is not true? Or at least there is no evidence proving that it is true or anything but a man-made hope?
OR what if people argue over obtaining everlasting life...without spending eternity with the god of the bible? What if people argued that eternity with Krishna was a far better option? Or that they will simple become one with The Force.
People can argue about “everlasting life” all day long, but at the end of the day there is not any evidence for life after death to start with. But, for the sake of argument and assuming everlasting life was true... why would any rational person spend an eternity with the most unpleasant evil character in all of fiction? A simple reading of the Old Testament reveals the god character is in fact monstrous and abhorrent.
The god of the bible is the creator of all evil; the character is a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic-cleanser; a misogynist, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megolomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capricously malevolent bully. He is the ultimate speciesist
The main character in the Bible has committed such great atrocities on immeasurable scales, and despite his evils and horrors, demands that every human being to love him or he will destroy them. If you think about it, spending eternity trapped in a world of a Bible-god would be a lot like being trapped in the little home of little Anthony Fremont, the creepy kid from the Twilight zone. If you have never seen that show, there was a little boy who had the powers of God. If he didn't like something you said or THOUGHT, he would either turn you into macabre monstrosity, kill you in some unthinkable fashion, sentence you to a living nightmare that never ends, or banish you to the corn field (an implicitly oblivious place which was never adequately described in the story). If he just showed you a ghastly curse he just put on the cat or your spouse, you would have to show him approval no matter how sick or twisted it was. You had to smile wide and praise him for doing that awful thing, “that's a good thing you did Anthony, a real good thing.” Because if you didn't, if you did not make yourself think nice things about him, he would tighten his lips, widen his eyes and all you could do was hope he kill you quickly. So whenever Christians talk about Heaven, that is what people should imagine. Think about enduring that forever.
Kirk, “now every now and then somebody might get a little upset. Don't let that bother you, in fact it should actually encourage you because anger is often a sign of conviction of sin. Just think of what happens when you get into an argument with somebody and suddenly it dawns on you that you are the one at fault. You can either humble yourself and apologize or you can keep your pride, get angry and slam the door on your way out.”
Anger is not a sign of conviction. Imagine a person you never met in your whole life approaches you out of the blue, and after a while this stranger told you you are mentally disabled and a dangerous person. Your first reaction might be stunned that someone would make such a judgmental call on you. There is nothing wrong with you, and you know it. But the unknown person says your denial is actually proof that you are in fact mentally disabled. This stranger has invented a made-up cage and has placed you in it, where no matter what you say will not convince the stranger you are not insane. Not only are you perfectly sane and the stranger is completely wrong, it is insulting and rude that this stranger has degraded you in such a manner. If you feel or express anger against such accusations, it is not a sign that the accuser is correct that you are insane, nor is anger a sign of conviction.
In the same manner, if a person expresses anger at an evangelist, who is making extraordinary claims while telling people they are disgusting sinners – without a lick of evidence – their anger is not a sign of conviction of “sin.”
Another reason why people might get annoyed, besides the accuser is being irrational by not including logic or evidence in their arguments, but because the accuser refuses to listen to reason and will not change their minds.
Kirk, “with those thoughts in mind, watch this next clip, watch this guy and as he gets angry, ask yourself why.”
Full summary and spoiler alert: the man is angry because Ray Comfort is not being reasonable and trying to get the man, Sean, to feel guilty with fictional religious rules.
Clip shows Ray Comfort arguing with a guy on the Hollywood bowl, Los Angeles. (due to the fast talking and quick remarks, for best results only the highlights of their conversation will be included)
Ray asks Sean if he believes in god. Sean says he believes in himself. Ray asks him to spell the word “shop.” Sean demands to know why he should. Ray just invites Sean to play along, but Sean refuses. Then Ray asks him “what does he do on a red light” Sean says “I stop.”
Sean asks Ray to present the fax number to jesus so he could contact him, otherwise Ray is just projecting words from his mind and attributing them to jesus. Ray presents the “word of god and his number is repentance and faith.” Sean points out the bible was written by man. Ray says “well it didn't evolve.”
A book full of discredited stories and faith. That's a pathetic answer. Imagine if Ray gave Sean a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of the comic Spiderman, telling Sean Spiderman is real. 'You can contact Spiderman, you just have to have faith he is real.' After which, the only way to contact this super hero...talk to him through your mind. And whatever voice you may hear back, attribute it to Spiderman.
The bible didn't evolve? Ray Comfort has admitted that when he talks to people of the streets, he talks about the “street knowledge” regarding evolution – that is, never about the actual science, but whatever little knowledge the non-scientist bloke on the street knows.
Of course a book does not posses alleles or genes, but the word evolution means “change over time.” In this non-biological sense, the bible DID evolve. Many gospels were rejected by church fathers, who selected a handful of different gospels to make up the bible. After this, the books were translated and mistranslated, altered and changed many times. So, in a sense, the bible did evolve.
Sean says that all of the sudden god had inspired him to tell Ray that everything Ray is doing right now is wrong and is a sin. PAUSE. Ray does not have a response, and Sean goes on to say the bible is just a book of anecdotes on how to live your life and jesus was just a man.
Ray has nothing to add or respond to Sean, so he immediately returns to his comfort zone and rehearses his evangelical lines: are you a good person? Sean has already heard this trick, but only plays along for a bit. When Ray asks him if he had ever lied, Sean says you have to lie in life, for instance husbands lie to their wives who are uncomfortable in a dress and ask their husbands how they look, the husband will lie to protect her feelings. Sean admits he has lied, but makes the point that people must lie in life, and lying does not make you a bad person.
Sean is correct that lying does not make anybody “a bad person.” Why? Because Ray is not using a criteria to measure if a person is “good” or not. No, rather Ray is trying to figure out of Sean is a good Jew!
Ray is using the commandments from Exodus 21 (not Exodus 34). These commandments were given by god to the Jews. Not to the Canaanites, or the Amalekites, or the Chinese, etc. No, these were laws given specifically to the Jews. In fact, many of the 613 laws were specifically designed to separate the Jews from the other pagan societies; like not celebrating certain holidays or refraining from eating certain foods or engaging in certain behaviors.
So, these are Jewish laws. Religious laws are not criterias to measure if a person is good or not. Imagine if Ray asked “are you a good person?” and then went on to ask if you've failed to travel to Mecca or failed to pray five times a day. These are from the 5 Pillars of Islam. Break one then you will be found guilty by Allah. Not traveling to Mecca or not praying five times a day does not make you a bad person, it makes you a bad Muslim. Likewise, if you lie or covet a sports car or work on the weekend, that does not mean you are a “bad person” it means you are a bad Jew.
Ray only uses the “secular” commandments to make his case, but in so doing he is being dishonest. He knows if he brought up working on the Sabbath while asked a person if they think they are a good person, they would see through the faulty logic instantly. These same secular rules (like not killing, stealing, or cheating) are laws that are held in high regard in many civilizations that far predate Judaism or Christianity. Because these laws maintain a stable society.
Finally, if Ray wanted to estimate if a person is good or not, just for goodness sakes, then he would ask if they have done the following: discriminate, rape, torture, abuse, cheated, harassed, and so on. These things can help determine if a person is good or not, but Ray is not interested in finding if anyone is good or not. His only agenda is to make people feel guilty and trapped by religious laws to steer them toward said religion. This is exactly how religions are designed from inception: build an imaginary standard that puts every human in a corner and provide an imaginary cure or 'get out of jail free card.' For instance, Scientologists will explain all your suffering and unanswered questions is due to aliens implanted in your body, and only through Scientology will you be cured and happy for ever after (if, of course, you pay them with everything).
Sean repeats himself by saying jesus was a man. Sean does not believe in a hell, and said jesus said heaven is not there or there, it is within. Sean says he does not have to go through Ray's rules to get into heaven. Sean does not believe in original sin, but Ray says you must be born again. Sean asks who said so? Ray answers jesus. Sean says that is nonsense, and if jesus was here on earth he and Sean would “be smoking a doobbie, that's how cool jesus was, jesus WAS A MAN. He was a man. Prove to me he was god! Prove to me he was god.” Ray does not answer and immediately moves on to point out to Sean he is a liar, blasphemer and adulterer “at heart” – to which Sean mocks and says because of that Ray thinks he will “burn in hell” – Ray says “I DIDN'T SAY THAT!”
Ray has nothing to say or provide that jesus (if he existed) was god. Despite Seans requests, Ray cannot provide anything.
Ray didn't say that? Don't be ridiculous Ray, you've been saying that to strangers for years. You've asked christians if they evangelize using the word “hell” and you've referenced hell countless times as a lake of fire.
Sean turns it around and asked Ray if he ever lied. Ray answers yes. Sean asks Ray if he ever cheated. Ray says yes.
We already know Ray is a liar. He lies daily about science. Every day he lies about science only proves what a hypocrite and false christian he is. He is also known to lie about history, particularly with Charles Darwin and Adolf Hitler.
Ray moves on and asks Sean would he be innocent or guilty on the day of judgment. Sean doesn't believe in such a thing, “we've been waiting 2,000 years.” Ray says “god is very patient.”
“god is very patient” or does not exist. According to Mark, jesus said he would return during the lifetimes of those who heard him, but that turned out to be false. And over 2,000 years later, that is 2,000 consecutive failures.
Sean says “heaven is on earth, hell is on earth. It is what you make it.” Ray ignores him and asks “would you be innocent or guilty if god judged you based on that standard?” When Sean speaks but doesn't answer, Ray raises his voice, “You'd be guilty, c'mon!”
Ray, on many occasions such as this one, has made his agenda clear. He wants people to admit they are “guilty”, he wants to pin them.
“if god judged you based on that standard?” On what? The Ten Commandments? You mean the ones in Exodus 34, the only time they are ever called the Ten Commandments. The standard that includes the demand that you never boil a baby goat in its mother's milk? It may be safe to say that Sean has never done this.
Sean says if there is a god, may he strike him dead on the spot. Nothing happens. Ray says “it will happen.”
Sean says nobody knows what happens when they die, they will find out when they die. Ray says “you don't know, I do.” Ray says “I've got the bible.”
Another lie. Ray does not know what happens when a person dies. He only “believes” what happens when a person dies, a belief that is not based on evidence but rather blind faith.
Belief may be either rational, or assumed on faith. But in either case, it doesn’t matter how convinced you are; belief does not equal knowledge. The difference is that knowledge can always be tested for accuracy where mere beliefs often can not be. No matter how positively you think you know it, if you can’t show it, then you don’t know it, and you shouldn’t say that you do. Nor would you if you really cared about the truth. Knowledge is demonstrable, measurable. But faith is often a matter of pretending to know what you know you really don't know, and that no one even can know, and which you merely believe -often for no good reason at all.
If anyone or everyone else would be called liars for claiming such things without any evidentiary basis, then why make exceptions for evangelists? For these charlatans are obviously liars too!
Ray, “remember when Nahash tried to destroy Israel's ability to fight? Look at how King Saul reacted to the demands of the covenant. 'Then the spirit of god came upon Saul when he heard those tidings, and his anger was greatly aroused' (1 Samuel 11:5). He became furious! That brings up an important point about anger. In the epic film, Ben-hur, a new commander comes aboard a ship. Ben-hur is a Galilee slave. As he walks Ben-hur, he swings around without any warning and with the whip, whips the bare flesh of Ben-hurs back. Ben-hur grips the oars, he eyes flash with emotions. To retaliate would probably mean having his throat cut slowly in front of the crew. Then the commander says, 'Your eyes are full of hate 41. That is good. Hate keeps a man alive. It gives him strength. Now listen to me, all of you. You are all condemned men. We keep you alive to serve this ship. So row well, and live.'”
Kirk, “listen to those words he said. Hate keeps a man alive, it makes him strong. But tremendous energy that is contained in hatred can be a powerful motivating force to the kingdom of god. Not many christians realize that the bible actually commands us to hate. It says 'you who love the lord hate evil.' It says 'abhore that which is evil' and 'the fear of the lord is to hate evil.' The bible also says that jesus loved righteousness and hated iniquity. We also need that wholly hatred for sin that will give us a passion for souls.”
Jesus also said that you must HATE your father, mother, brother, sister, and even you own life if you want to follow him.
Ray and Kirk in the field with an ox. Ray says, “when Saul became angry at Nahash demands, he took a yoke of ox and cut them in pieces and sent them throughout all the territories of Israel by the hands of messengers saying 'this will be done to the oxen of anyone who does not follow Saul after Samuel, and the terror of the lord fell unto the people and they turned out as one man.”
Kirk, “so how did Saul put the fear of god into the people, and get them to commit to the cause? He threatened to cut their oxen into pieces. Well, why did he do that? Well think about it, if you don't have any oxen, you can't plow your field. And if you can't plow, you can't plant your seeds. And not seed means no harvest. And if there is no harvest, you don't eat. You die. You see, I know how to get your attention. I just need to reach out and touch your wallet or your purse, and you would say 'Hey! What do you think you're doing!?' because that is your means of livelihood. And that is exactly what Saul is doing: he was touching their means of livelihood. And the fear of god fell on the people, and they all came out as a unified spirit.”
So what are Kirk and Ray hoping to achieve here? What kind of message are they trying to pass on to other Christians? Do they want other Christians and churches to cut into the means of livelihood of nonbelievers, just to get their attention?
Ray, “sometime ago, a friend of mine stood on my soapbox and preached outdoors. As he spoke, he handed out copies of his testimony. A young boy took a copy of that testimony in front of my friend, crumpled it up and ripped it and threw it onto the ground. Something in me snapped. I walked down, grabbed that kid by the earlobe and told him he can rip up my testimony any time he wanted but not my friend Richard's. And I squeezed his ear and said 'now pick that up you little bug.' As I continued to squeeze his ear, we walked slowly in front of the crowd toward the trash bin. I thought to myself 'what am I doing, he could have five big brothers.' The next day, that little kid was in the front row of the crowd, listening to every word I was saying. Now, I don;t know what I did was ethically sound, but one thing I do know, one way to open the ear is to squeeze it.”
When Ray discusses past experiences, one should be skeptical. Considering that Ray often loves to expand his past experiences, especially to make himself look impressive to his readers. For example, when Ray gets humiliated at a debate, he does not mention the debate at all and says he was a “guest speaker.”
With skepticism in mind towards Ray's little story, we don't have to accept that this ever happened. What we can take note of this is that Ray's ethical compass must be damaged. Ray caused a person physical harm, and Ray “does not know what he did was ethnically sound.” How can a mentally healthy person not understand harming another person is not ethnically sound? And not just any person, a young boy. All Ray could think of was retaliation from the boy or possibly his brother's. Ray was not thinking of the wrong he was inflicting on this person, Ray was only thinking about protecting his own skin.
All this for what? What was that person's crime? He ripped up the testimony of Ray's friend Richard.
Ray could have taken the time on this program to apologize or express forgiveness towards harming another person, but he didn't.
Next, Ray says that anonymous young person was back in the front of the crowd listening to him. First of all, we cannot verify if this was the same person as the day before. Secondly, we do not know if this person was just listening, or if he was actually shouting rebuttals at Ray the whole time. The second scenario has happened to Ray before in Los Angeles. Young skeptics in Los Angeles often visit his favorite spot in Huntington Beach simply to counter Ray's evangelism or point out to bystanders when and where Ray's arguments are wrong. If Ray saw one young skeptic one day, and then the next day, does Ray think their presence must mean that they are there to hear his nonsense? Of course not.
Likewise, if this anonymous person was back the day after having his ear squeezed by Ray, he simply could have been there to mock Ray. Are we to assume that a person who rips up the testimonies of Christians right in front of them, then gets assaulted by a Christian and humiliated in front of a crowd, would return to their soapbox gathering to listen to their words? Not likely at all.
Kirk, “so here's the question for you: what does god have to squeeze to get the ear of the church? Or better yet, what does god have to squeeze to get your ear? Does he have to cut into our means of livelihood, to give us the fear of the lord, to bring us out with one mind? How long will the church continue to plotting along without any real concern to reach the lost? Will we wait until judgment begins at the house of the lord?”
Asking what does a imaginary being have to squeeze is meaningless.
Cut scene to Kirk and Ray walking by a calm stream. Ray says, “a woman was once playing with her two year old child on a river back when the child fell into the murky waters. The mother screamed in terror was the child began to drown. She was in the latter stages of pregnancy, and besides she couldn't swim. Finally, someone heard her screaming and rushed down to the water and retrieved that now dead child from the river. To their horror, they found that water was only waist deep. That women could've saved her child, but didn't because of a lack of knowledge. If only she had known, she could have stepped in and saved her beloved child. As you stand on the riverbank of the fear of man, you may be deceived into thinking that the murky waters of personal evangelism are out of your depth. But let knowledge release you. As you step into those waters, your feet will stand firmly on the sure and true promises of god. He will uphold you with his hand.”
“you may be deceived into thinking that the murky waters of personal evangelism are out of your depth”
...actually, if you are gullible enough, you may be deceived by Ray Comfort and other evangelists to think that the 'murky waters of personal evangelism' are honest and truthful. The reality is that personal evangelism is anything but honest or logical.
This riverbank Ray tries to employ as “personal evangelism” is really a riverbank of delusion.
Kirk, “so think about the fate of the unsaved. They are not simply going to drown in a river, if they die in their sins, they are going into the lake of fire. The world may mock that thought, but as sure as hell, hell is sure. So please, learn how to reach them with the message of the gospel. On our website we have free audio and video lessons that can help you deal with your fears and make you effective so you can make a difference while there is still time.”
The fate of the unsaved is only a fate that exists in fantasy of Kirk Cameron and Christians. People are no more in danger of a terrible fate as they are with every other land of the damned in every other religion, cult, or fictional tale.
The present scientific consensus is that nothing happens after death, no piece of the human brain or anything survives after death. Assuming for the moment that if something did, there are theoretically an infinite number of scenarios that could happen. Picking one scenario (Hell) out of the infinite possibilities, is mathematically not possible. If you take any positive number and divide it by infinity, the result is virtually absolute zero. So mathematically the likelihood that Hell is the actual fate of the “unsaved” is practically absolute zero.
“The world may mock that thought, but as sure as hell, hell is sure.” This is a lie. False, untrue, and dishonest. Kirk does not know if hell is real. Knowledge is demonstrable, if you know something you can show it. Never in Kirk's career in evangelism has he ever provided proof that hell exists (let alone god).
To make an absolute claim based on certainty, but lack the proof and knowledge, is ultimately nothing more than a lie. On top of that lie, this falls under delusion.
Imagine if a person said those who don't believe in werewolves will have their souls mauled and eaten by ferocious and ravenous dire wolves in a mystical forest land in the afterlife. After presenting such a absurd fantasy, that person says “it will surely happen.” Not only do they have no basis or proof for such a claim about the afterlife, this would mean they are straight up lying to you. Kirk Cameron has essentially done just that.